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Simon Willison’s Weblog

Eclipse download hell

One of the many thing the Mozilla/Firefox team have got right is the fantastic ease with which the application can be downloaded. Visitors to www.mozilla.org are greeted with a nice big “Free Download” link, aimed straight at the version for their (automatically detected) operating system hosted on a mirror geographically close to their IP address. It’s hard to think of any way they could improve on this.

Contrast the Firefox experience to that facing anyone who wishes to download the Eclipse IDE. By far the most common usage of Eclipse is as an intelligent Java development environment, but the front page of eclipse.org makes no mention of this, instead calling it “a kind of universal tool platform—an open extensible IDE for anything and nothing in particular” followed by a link to a white paper. If you wanted to be pedantic about Firefox you could call it a “development platform for XUL-based web-centric applications” (and maybe mention the embedded HTML parser in a foot-note) but doing so would be utterly counter-productive.

So, on to the downloads page, embedded in a late-90s era frameset (at least they have the decency to link to a new frameset for each page, thus keeping bookmarks functional). This is a list of mirrors, ordered alphabetically by the name of the company or organisation sponsoring the mirror with only the domain name of each site as an indication of its geographical location. The link to the infinitely more useful geographical list is hidden at the bottom of the page.

I’m in the UK, so I hit the link for the UK mirror service. I’m after the most recent stable release, which I happen to know is version 3.0.1. Here are my options:

List of directories with obscure names

I’m going to take an educated guess and go for R-3.0.1-200409161125—after all, the R probably stands for “release”, it’s got the version number in it and it was last modified on the 7th of November which sounds about right for a recent release. I’m now faced with a list of files too long to show here, at least 7 of which have macosx-carbon in the filename. Here are the most likely contenders:

  • eclipse-JDT-3.0.1-macosx-carbon.tar.gz—13.9M
  • eclipse-JDT-SDK-3.0.1-macosx-carbon.tar.gz—24.6M
  • eclipse-platform-3.0.1-macosx-carbon.tar.gz—23.1M
  • eclipse-platform-SDK-3.0.1-macosx-carbon.tar.gz—51.1M
  • eclipse-RCP-3.0.1-macosx-carbon.tar.gz—4.5M
  • eclipse-RCP-SDK-3.0.1-macosx-carbon.tar.gz—16.3M
  • eclipse-SDK-3.0.1-macosx-carbon.tar.gz—80.8M

I tried eclipse-platform-3.0.1-macosx-carbon.tar.gz first, which gave me the IDE but not the Java editing features that I was actually interested in. Next I tried eclipse-JDT-SDK-3.0.1-macosx-carbon.tar.gz, which gave me the plugins but not the actual application. It turns out that eclipse-SDK-3.0.1-macosx-carbon.tar.gz, my third choice, was the one that I needed.

I’m a huge fan of Eclipse: it makes Java development bearable (see the IDE Divide) but installing it is such a pain I nearly gave up! A note to the Eclipse guys: please, please take a look at how Firefox are distributing their application and see if you can apply some of the same techniques to Eclipse. Your users will thank you for it.

Posted 27th November 2004 at 10:44 pm

This is Eclipse download hell by Simon Willison, posted on 27th November 2004.

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28 comments

  1. Try downloading anything else from IBM. They sure make it a frustrating upward climb.

    Monsur - 27th November 2004 23:15 - #

  2. Good point - but the Eclipse project is supposed to be independant from IBM now. Come to think of it, downloading things from Sun (especially the Java SDK) is pretty painful as well.

    Simon Willison - 27th November 2004 23:25 - #

  3. Looks like a problem with the UK mirror. All other mirrors I checked lets you select a version (with 3.0.1 clearly marked as the current version), and the next page explains what the SDK release is, followed by a list of operating systems with direct links to the right download file

    Fredrik - 27th November 2004 23:33 - #

  4. The Firefox site gets a lot of criticism, which is unfortunate, because as you've pointed out here, they've done a pretty good job in comparison to other software developers of getting the right releases out to the right people - and efficiently at that!

    Bernie Zimmermann - 28th November 2004 03:34 - #

  5. I've had a similar problem with almost anything technical that I've tried to do on the Internet, the two most prominent in my mind being setting up CVS and an IRCD. I've found that if they don't get you at the download stage, the lack of simple straightforwardness comes at the documentation level.

    The solution to the problem really would be to just go for the lowest common denominator, so to speak. Assume that those using your software have little or no knowledge of its technicalities and need to have things spelled out for them. Don't assume that I know something; point it out for me instead.

    I truly can't imagine anyone not using a product because the instuctions were "dumbed down".

    Stu Schaff - 28th November 2004 03:35 - #

  6. I went through the same mess. It took me 3 different downloads before I finally got the right one. The best part was that I got the correct link from a 3rd party site with a tutorial on how to install Eclipse. Boo. Hiss.

    David Schontzler - 28th November 2004 04:03 - #

  7. Great comparison with Firefox. Reminds me of Jeffs blog on API design.

    Firefox is making the common thing easy (downloading and using as a web browser) while making the uncommon thing possible (using it as development platform for XUL-based web-centric applications).

    The Eclipse website seems to have gone the road of some of the older Java APIs: equal support for all kinds of use cases (common or uncommon) is paramount. The risk that the one person, in every 100,000 visitors, who might end up writing an Eclipse plugin misses the point that it's a "universal tool platform" seems to have shaped the design of the site.

    Certainly if they want Eclipse to put a dent in Visual Studio, that's got to change. Compare that with the free, stripped down version of VS for ASP.NET: Web Matrix. Right now Eclipse is preaching to the converted.

    Harry Fuecks - 28th November 2004 09:29 - #

  8. Not just me being completely thick then. At least others have the same problem.

    Mind you, the Firefox system isn't completely foolproof is it? Of course, it can't be. I downloaded the 1.0 version using my Acorn Risc OS machine because the Mac was busy. The browser was set up to identify itself as Windows IE4 and of course I was offered the Windows version of FF.

    That sort of thing aside, it is jolly good.

    Peter Gaunt - 28th November 2004 11:57 - #

  9. Far more frustrating than the downlad experience to me is that Eclipse has some very unmaclike keybindings by default. Changing them is also painful.

    Luis Lourenco - 28th November 2004 13:30 - #

  10. It's so true. And as a previous poster mentioned, Sun's site is awful. I tried to grab the latest JRE for a friend but it took me five minutes just to find the link on thier site. It's brutal.

    Jonathan Snook - 28th November 2004 13:54 - #

  11. Not only does Opera's site do everything Firefox does when you go to download, but it also checks to see if you have the latest version and it defaults to a download in your preferred language. Now that is cool. :)

    As a little added bit, instead of showing off the features of Opera with a screenshot when you have the latest version, it displays information on the MyOpera community and lists some benefits of purchasing.

    J. King - 28th November 2004 16:00 - #

  12. I agree that IBM seems to almost go out of their way to make life difficult. Have you ever tried using WebSphere Application Server? ugh! As far as Java IDEs go, though, I've recently become a big fan of IntelliJ! Unfortunately, it's not free, but it's well worth the money imho!

    Gareth Western - 28th November 2004 17:30 - #

  13. If we are starting to name alternatives have you tried XCode on the Mac Simon? Not being a Java fiend I'm confused about the pros and cons of the two but I wonder if it isn't a viable alternative to Eclipse.

    Andy Todd - 28th November 2004 21:49 - #

  14. This articlew was entertaining... And so true!

    Despair not, I'm in the process of re-working the way people download Eclipse. I used Eclipse prior to my employment here at Eclipse.org, and I can tell you, I feel your pain.

    For now, your best bet is to find a good HTTP mirror that has the proper file list displayed as a web page. It makes it much easier to figure out what's what, and what to download. I will, however, pass your comments to the release engineers, so they can perhaps add more instructions to guide the Eclipse newcomer into getting the right file -- the first time.

    If you have any specific questions or concerns, please drop me a note at webmaster@eclipse.org. Please have [Downloads] in the subject line so I don't flag it as SPAM.

    Eclipse Webmaster - 29th November 2004 16:32 - #

  15. I completely agree Simon. I have never been so lost looking for what I wanted than I was on the Eclipse download site. The other thing that is missing is a really good plugins "directory" that is easily searchable and well documented. I guess there are a couple of "todo" things...

    Stephan Segraves - 29th November 2004 22:45 - #

  16. The SDK contains the platform, the JDT and the plugins development tools. If its just a java development you are after, then you just need the platform and the JDT (the first two packages you downloaded). JDT installation is just copying the contents of the plugin and features directory into the same named directory in the Eclipse install directory.

    But you are right, downloading Eclipse should not be that difficult, or obtuse.

    Isofarro - 30th November 2004 10:52 - #

  17. I was just visiting to see if I could use Eclipse as an HTML editor (I already use it for Java). It took me half an hour just to find out if their web tools plugin had downloads available, let alone what it's supposed to do or whether they work. The site never says "The web tools plugin provides featues A/B/C". It just drones on about abstract concepts, frustrating if you're looking for an answer.

    Matt Hampel - 30th November 2004 14:49 - #

  18. You took the words right out of my mouth! I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I was just having this discussion with a friend the other day. What would be nice is if we could take the firefox page, that "plastic" look and create something nice a blue. I love Eclipse to death, but the best thing firefox ever did for itself is exactly what Eclipse needs to do, make it easy to download.

    Dan Allen - 30th November 2004 23:43 - #

  19. You are oh so right! I choosed Eclipse as my primary PHP IDE and dowloading was a pian and took me nearly one hour. For I didn't know what file to download, I did it via the main server, stopped it, noted the filename and then took a mirror (the first one, since I was to annoyed to spend anouther round of thoughts).

    I visited the Eclipse page quite often about 1 and a half year ago to look how the C++ IDE was progressing. That was the time, when they put everything in three different categegories "tools", "projects" and some other. Nowadays, they have even more and I have no clue, where to find anything. They just map their internal organisation model to the page, and do not follow the user model. Or shortly: The page was designed for them, not for us.

    But at least you can download something from eclipse.org. I tried to get myself a build of lynx for Windows and the websites sends you from A to B to C and back to A...

    Gerd Riesselmann - 2nd December 2004 00:07 - #

  20. yo don't never let people download it all lie b****** all yo

    kenald - 14th December 2004 19:07 - #

  21. yo don't never let people download it all lie b****** all yo

    kenald - 14th December 2004 19:07 - #

  22. yo don't never let people download it all lie b****** all yo

    kenald - 14th December 2004 19:07 - #

  23. The Ecplise IDI providea a better JFC and API collections of Java NetBeans IDE, Forte CE and even JDeveloper(Embedded inside Oracle 9i - Deveoper') for Core-Java, JAF, JAXR and Java platform applications excluding J2EE ( I dont know yet that Eclipse can be used in BC4J, OC4J and The Java Beans).

    Deepesh Basu - 31st December 2004 17:53 - #

  24. Now is your time to speak out. I have released a new prototype for downloading Eclipse. While it doesn't solve the world's problems, I believe it makes getting Eclipse much easier, especially for the newcomer. Click http://www.eclipse.org/downloads and click the link for the new prototype page. Please post any feedback on the eclipse.foundation newsgroup, as indicated on the prototype introduction page. Denis

    Eclipse WebMaster - 20th January 2005 14:34 - #

  25. try this http://download.eclipse.org/downloads/index.php

    Girish Padmalayam - 4th February 2005 00:29 - #

  26. Take a look at this screenshot...

    Peter Backlund - 7th April 2005 20:14 - #

  27. Totally agree - would it not be for the equally crap experience at intellij / Jetbrains site I would think it was me - lacking in the savvy that appears to pervade any 'serious' site with off-hand anally sarcastic and often immature quips intended for those in the know. Attempting to get an Eclipse platform to 1) Download 2) Get the associated dependencies 3) Run a bloody project that gets my peers attention out of the '.NET is all lets pray to Gates ' mindset has failed - obviously its my lack of experience that has led to this 4) Life is too short.... If it dont work first time look some where else - lots of people are being paid large sums to develop and I simply have lost faith with the 'ECLPISE' - centric view of the universe - hail Gallileo - the KING WAS NAKED

    Paul Owen - 9th December 2005 12:50 - #

  28. what I think the most painful in Eclipse is is the plugins' hell installation part to get something decent to work. So, I stay on Netbeans for now, who gives an ready-to-work IDE.

    goku - 14th February 2006 14:02 - #

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