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Simon Willison’s Weblog

A global conversation

Dave Winer on TrackBacks and push backs (and presumably PingBack as well):

I’m old school. I think the cool thing about weblogs is that they are not discussion groups or mail lists. If I want to know what all the people are saying there are ways to do that, but very often I’m content to read email and a few weblogs that I trust. Personally I don’t think there’s gold in them thar hills, but of course I’ve been wrong before.

I think Dave has missed the boat on this one by a long way. Just the other day I realised that weblogs (or at least the one’s I read) are essentially a huge global conversation. Anyone can join in, but the price of entry is having your own blog and something interesting to say. With those two pre-requisites the social network of the blogosphere does the rest—people will see what you have to say via random browsing, links on other blogs, TrackBack return links and so forth and before you know it your (useful) opinion will be being read by people who normally you wouldn’t communicate with in your entire lifetime.

Mark Pilgrim knows this, and his Recommended Reading and Automatic Linkback tools provide him with an excellent way of participating in the global conversation. Dave Winer, as a contrast, appears to treat his blog as read-only—no comments, no trackbacks. There’s nothing wrong with this (how someone runs their blog is a very personal thing) but I can’t help but think that by doing so Dave is missing out on a truly remarkable example of the two way web in action.

So that’s my rant. Unfortunately, seeing as I’m unlikely to feature on Dave’s “few weblogs” that he trusts the chances are he’ll never read it. Çe la vie.

Posted 19th January 2003 at 10:26 pm

This is A global conversation by Simon Willison, posted on 19th January 2003.

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11 comments

  1. If I did have comments on my weblog it would be like Slashdot, a very low signal to noise ratio. Don't blame me for that, it comes with longevity and flow. The longer the site is around and the higher the flow, the more losers one attracts. I can see where these things work for a lower flow site, but they would never work for Scripting News, I'd have to turn it off quickly because of the low-roaders.

    Dave Winer - 19th January 2003 22:32 - #

  2. BTW, I generally read your site when it updates.

    Dave Winer - 19th January 2003 22:33 - #

  3. I stand corrected :) I see what you mean about Scripting News being too high traffic for many two-way systems, but the message I got from your post was that two way blogging technologies weren't particularly valuable. My viewpoint is that they are totally invaluable for the vast majority of bloggers - they help with exposure and generally make the blogosphere a more interesting and interactive place.

    Simon Willison - 19th January 2003 22:42 - #

  4. Watch out for those messages. ;->

    Dave Winer - 20th January 2003 00:12 - #

  5. I have to agree with Dave on this one. Low- to medium-traffic sites can benefit from 2-way links (pick your tech). High-traffic sites need some sort of additional filter, both for the reasons Dave mentions (which I have felt myself recently -- God forbid any high-profile blogger should voice opinions contrary to the conventional wisdom) but also for simple scalability reasons. Did you see the auto-linkbacks on my Safari review? I had links from over 100 unique domains. Not only was it not useful, it completely overwhelmed my actual content.

    Mark - 20th January 2003 03:44 - #

  6. I'm with the big shots. I'm very fussy about what gets displayed on my site. On the other hand, I like knowing who has linked in. A semi-automatic trackback would suit me fine: automatic registration of people linking to me, with an interface I could use to highlight and comment on them.

    Garth T Kidd - 20th January 2003 08:10 - #

  7. Don't you know Dave knows all and sees all in the blogosphere? :) Mention his name, and chances are, he's noted what you've said. Busy guy there.

    l.m.orchard - 20th January 2003 18:44 - #

  8. Mark, why not have the most recent linkbacks on your main age underneath the story and then a link to a 'further trackbacks on this entry' page, where people can go if they're more curious?

    Lach - 21st January 2003 00:24 - #

  9. On the other hand, Shelley Powers--whose blog is #50 on Technorati, and whose readership is pretty diverse--keeps her comments open. As a result, her comments often contain fascinating debates and discussions on the topics she's posting about. Mark, I'd disagree about the usefulness of the 100+ linkbacks on your review. With many of your posts (the recent standards rant, for example), I find the the links are very useful and interesting ways to find other blogs on topics I'm interested in. Blogrolls are much more static than comments and trackbacks, which for me provide the live interlinking that makes weblogs so very interesting as a communication medium.

    Liz - 23rd January 2003 21:16 - #

  10. I had open comments on my blog until they were attracting more spam than real commentary. I hung an old UBB onto the bottom of my blog items and it someone goes through the motions of setting up a UN/PW, they can comment. Fact is, I see more comments by glancing at referrers containing a hash sign. That normally indicates a pingback, so I visit the place and absorb the message. I can do this live with Radio's referrer listings and I can do it offline by simply searching my web server logs. I am content with this kind of feedback loop.

    Bernie Goldbach - 25th January 2003 18:25 - #

  11. C'est! C'est la vie!

    :)

    porges - 25th November 2004 07:19 - #

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